National Physical Laboratory

Minutes of the Thirtieth IRMF Meeting

Wednesday 9th November 2005
National Physical Laboratory

Present:

Chairman:   Steven Judge   National Physical Laboratory
Secretary:   Dagmara Tyler   National Physical Laboratory
         
    Arzu Arinc   National Physical Laboratory
    Duncan Aston   High Technology Sources
    Gavin Barrett   Gravatom
    Keith Baxter   MoD MNCQP
    John Bennett   DSTL
    Reg Bosley   RWE Nukem
    Frank Bramall   Devonport Management
    Derek Brazer   AWE
    Peter Burgess   UKAEA
    Ludovic Chevallereau   Serco Assurance
    Sean Collins   National Physical Laboratory
    Bill Croydon   Thermo Electron Corporation.
    John Dawson   Centronic Raditec Ltd
    Julian Dean   National Physical Laboratory
    Denise Delahunty   Regional Rad. Physics & Protection Service
    Geoff Druce   AWE
    Dave Fisher   Devonport Management
    Mike Flemming   Serco Assurance
    Neil Foreman   Centronic Ltd
    David Gallacher   Medical Physics Directorate St Thomas's Hospital
    Colin Goruin   Devonport Management
    James Grand   Berthold Technologies (UK) Ltd
    Chris Hill   Health Protection Agency, Radiation Protection Division
    Victoria Howard   AMEC NNC Limited
    Michael Iwatschenko   Thermo Electron Corporation.
    Simon Jerome   National Physical Laboratory
    M Johnstone   BIL Solutions
    Alfred Klett   Berthold Technologies (UK) Ltd
    Shaun Marriott   BAE Systems Ltd
    Bob Mason   Sherwood Nutec Consultancy
    Robin Mather   British Nuclear Group Project Services Ltd.
    Duncan McClure   Health Protection Agency, Radiation Protection Division
    Jan McClure   Health Protection Agency, Radiation Protection Division
    Ray McConnell   BIL Solutions
    Steve McQuillan   National Physical Laboratory
    Roy Mooney   NI Medical Physics Agency
    Mairin O'Colmain   Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland
    Martin Oliver   Lab Impex Systems Ltd?
    Max Pottinger   Thermo Electron Corporation.
    David Rawlings   Newcastle General Hospital
    Mike Renouf   British Nuclear Group Project Services Ltd.
    Tony Richards   Consultant
    Martyn Sene   National Physical Laboratory
    Jon Silvie   BAE Systems Ltd
    John Simpson   RWE Nukem
    David Taylor   National Physical Laboratory
    Graeme Taylor   National Physical Laboratory
    Russell Truman   DERA Radiological Protection Service
    Eliot Williams   UKAEA

Exhibitors:

High Technology Sources

Centronic Raditec Ltd

Berthold Technologies (UK) Ltd

Thermo Electron Corporation

30.1 Welcome

Steven Judge and Martyn Sené gave a joint welcome to the 30th meeting of the IRMF.

Martyn stated that the IRMF had proved to be a successful and productive meeting for both NPL and the ionising radiation metrology community. The exhibitors were thanked for their donation towards the wine, which was provided as a celebration of the 30th meeting. Martyn announced that Clare Lee (the previous IRMF secretary) has had a baby boy – Alex James, and that mother and baby are both doing well.

Steven Judge outlined the agenda, which was prepared to cover different aspects of ionising radiation metrology.

Minutes of 29th meeting: no corrections

Matters arising:

  • Medical X-ray qualities – Tony Richards giving presentation in the afternoon.
  • Dave Rayner agreed to lead a small working group for corrections to GPG 14 and GPG 30. Peter Burgess, John Simpson and Ludovic Chevallereau volunteered as members.

30.2 Keynote presentation

The Dalton Institute

Jon Billows (Deputy Director) informed the meeting about the new Dalton Nuclear Institute

  • The Dalton Nuclear Institute is the focus for nuclear research and education at the University of Manchester.
  • The Institute will integrate and expand nuclear research at Manchester

Jon Billows also talked about the Nuclear Technology Education Consortium (NTEC). This is a major new UK initiative in postgraduate level education and training for the nuclear sector co-ordinated by the Dalton Nuclear Institute.

If anyone is interested in offering a project placement for an MSc student, please contact NTEC: http://www.ntec.ac.uk

Link to Dalton Nuclear Institute website: http://www.manchester.ac.uk/eps/dalton

View Jon Billowes' presentation

30.3 Surface Contamination Session

Hand monitoring

Peter Burgess (UKAEA) gave an informal and interactive talk to the meeting regarding low level contamination levels and whether setting the instruments at lower levels triggers false alarms. A discussion ensued concerning the limits of surface contamination used operationally. Historically, hand monitors were set to 0.4 Bq cm-2 alpha and 4 Bq cm-2 beta, typically 36Cl. UKAEA is aiming to reduce these levels as the staff query the acceptability of levels which are easy to detect with conventional RPI. A question was put to the meeting on the levels that other organisations use and whether reduced levels lead to frequent false alarms from radon progeny. Mike Renouf stated that the BNFL operate at lower levels and had not had major problems.

Sandside Bay

Peter Burgess’s second presentation outlined the problems of monitoring for radioactive particles on Sandside Bay, Dounreay. He briefly described the current system and potential new systems. He discussed in detail the tests that are undertaken to check these new systems. Peter took questions from the floor regarding different types of detectors and systems tested as well as homogeneity of the tests. An important point was made that contractors need to have extensive background information concerning sites, to ensure that monitoring is carried out effectively.

View Peter Burgess’ presentation

Surface Contamination Comparison

Sean Collins (NPL) gave a talk on the recent surface contamination comparison that was carried out by NPL. Sean ended his presentation with a question on source homogeneity, which led to a discussion amongst the members. A lively discussion ensured with the meeting raising issues regarding the probability distribution of reading the ‘moving needle’ in the instruments. Steven Judge acknowledged that this is an important issue and is being discussed with the electronics and dosimetry groups at NPL to determine a fundamental answer. Another strongly debated topic was whether the surface area of detectors is of importance; there was a difference of opinion amongst the members. This was followed by a discussion regarding the EP15 and a monitoring, including a debate on calibrating monitors as a function of energy. Due to time constraints the discussion had to be stopped before any conclusions were reached.

View Sean Collins’ presentation

30.4 ISO Standards

Evaluation of Surface Contamination – Proposal for Revision of ISO Standard 7503

Cristoph Schuler from the Paul Scherrer Institut, Switzerland, presented the proposed revisions of ISO7503 standard, Evaluation of Surface Contamination (3 Parts). He described the differences in the structure of the revised document to the existing standard. He went on to explain how the revised document differs in the approach to instrument calibration, using 131I as an example.

The subject of the treatment of p-factors in the proposed new standard proved a very controversial issue with an intense debate taking place between the members. Peter Burgess and John Simpson called for the p-factor values to be removed from the document, with general agreement from the other members. Tony Richards stated that there will be an opportunity to comment on this document when it is published in a draft format. A further debate took place regarding the detector window efficiency but had to be stopped short due to time constraints. (Note added after the meeting: it is understood that the proposals have since been withdrawn.)

View Christoph Schuler’s presentation

Availability of Large Area NaI based Reference Standard for the Calibration of ISO 8769-2 Photon Emission Rate Standards

Jon Wardle (AWE) gave a brief presentation about the UK primary reference standard for photon emission rates. He presented some historical information about the standard and the calibration procedure, including the test results. He illustrated the usefulness of this standard with real world radiological problems.

View Jon Wardle’s presentation

30.5 Decommissioning Session

Decommissioning project update and outcome of workshop.

Julian Dean (NPL) presented the outcome of the recent workshop held at NPL on metrology for decommissioning. Julian informed the meeting of the problems involved in decommissioning and he went on to describe the structure of the workshop: a formal presentation session in the morning and an interactive session in the afternoon where delegates were able discuss important issues and decide on the most important ones. These findings/discussions were presented at the end of the workshop.

There was a general consensus of the IRMF members that there is a continuing urgent need for further work in this area. Martyn Sené explained that there is a funding issue and if members lobby the MoD or DTI then this urgency may be addressed.

View Julian Dean’s presentation

Decommissioning workshop minutes

Clearance and Exemption Code of Practice – update.

David Owen (AWE) outlined the new Nuclear Industry Code of Practice - Clearance and exemption principles and practices for use by the nuclear industry. He presented the background to the document, its structure and current status and talked briefly about future plans.

View David Owen’s prsentation

Link to Clearance and Exemption CoP website

30.6 Knowledge Transfer

Modern Knowledge transfer

David Taylor (NPL) gave a talk about the use of the internet for sharing information and collaboration. He gave examples of how this technology may be used for on-line conferencing. This was well received by the meeting but there was general agreement that this should be used to supplement rather than replace meetings such as the IRMF.

View David Taylor’s presentation

David explained gave several examples of new technology for knowledge transfer. A brief summary is given below, with links to examples.

1 DTI's Knowledge Transfer Networks

A complete list of the Knowledge Transfer Networks can be seen here (not all functional):

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ktn/

The functioning networks are these:

You need only register on one of these KTNs, and your information is re-used when you join any of the others.

2 Real time conferencing

When you have registered with one of the KTNs you will have free use of the Interwise Internet Conferencing system. For example if you register on the (Micro and Nanotechnology) MNT Forum, you can go to this URL to create a conference and invite participants: http://195.92.228.190/interwise/ListEvents.aspx (you need to login first).

A guide to participating in a conference can be found here: http://download.interwise.com/customersupportdownloads/documentation/4.5/qsc/QSC_Participant_45(SP2).pdf

A quick guide to setting up your own conference call can be found here (PPT): iMeeting%2520Quick%2520Guide.ppt

3 Blogs, Wikipedia and Podcasts

Wikipedia is an on-line encyclopaedia: http://www.wikipedia.org

The Wikipedia page on NPL is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Physical_Laboratory%2C_UK

Technical presentations are starting to be made available as podcasts, for example:

The NIST Series of Podcasts on Quantum Information/Bose-Einstein Condensation: http://physics.nist.gov/Mp4s/

Here is the Arizona State University CTO's blog: http://sannier.net/acesblog/index.php?cat=8//

Here is ASU's wiki for helping to define their strategy for the University's IT and new website: http://www.sannier.net/wiki1/index.php?title=Main_Page

4 RSS Newsfeeds

For information about RSS (really simple syndication): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/rss/default.stm

5 Communities

The single photon community's website produced by NPL is here: http://www.photoncount.com

(And one technology, used by children at the moment, a form of which may eventually find an application in the workplace is: http://www.habbohotel.com)

30.7 Neutron Session

Graeme Taylor (NPL) gave an overview of the work carried out in the neutron group and he spoke about the neutron comparison exercise.

View Graeme Taylor’s presentation

30.8 Dosimetry Session

A brief progress report from the Radiation Dosimetry Group

Martin Palmer (NPL) gave an overview of the some of the work being undertaken with the dosimetry group. He reported that the protection level calibration service has been started for 2005 and that chamber calibrations for 241Am, 60Co and 137Cs can now be done outside the November/December calibration period.

Martin informed the meeting that the 5th IRMF Gamma comparison will start in Januray 2006 and that there are still a few places available. Please contact Martin if you wish to register.

The protocol and diagrams will be available on the IRMF home website; the links are reproduced below for convenience:

Diagrams

Martin also spoke about the proposed Electronic Personal Dosemeter Good Practice Guide Working group and asked for volunteers for a secretary and chairperson. If you would be interested please contact Martin Palmer.

View Martin Palmer's presentation

Medical X-Ray qualities

Tony Richard's (Consultant) gave a brief presentation about progress of the medical X-ray comparison group including the web based discussion forum and information exchange.

Dave Rollins asked to be added to the group. There was interest from the meeting to include mammography.

View Anthony Richard’s presentation

30.9 Any other business

The problems with the longevity of the scintillator associated with the ‘Mini 42 and 44’ monitors was highlighted. This led to a discussion about the guidance on equipment testing. The general agreement was that this area is problematic and needs to be addressed. It is necessary to have consensus on the best protocols and to have clear guidelines available. Several suggestions were made including:

  • Full test on first use, then annual testing to be less stringent
  • Need to state minimum tests required
  • Tests may be dependant on monitor (EPD may require more testing)
  • For a large number of detectors, there was a suggestion that all should be tested upon arrival (new), then a random sample of ~ 20 % be tested annually. (random sampling)
  • Need to have critical failure modes
  • A suggestion of electronic testing rather than radiological testing was suggested but no agreement was reached on this point
  • Need to consider corrosion; glues etc can also fail on the monitors.

It was brought to the attention of the meeting that some people (mainly hospitals) have been advised that their monitors do not require testing at all.

It was decided that the IRMF should make the Department of Health aware of these issues and that currently inappropriate advice is issued to users. The necessity of equipment testing should be given significant attention in the opinion of the IRMF.

NPL will write to the Department of Health on the behalf of IRMF outlining these problems. Steven Judge will draft the letter for Denise Delahunty and Duncan McClure to comment before submitting to Ian Chell at the Department of Health.

The problem regarding passivated EPD LTC Batteries was raised. Bill Croydon will look into this and let Steven Judge know the outcome. There is a note on the thermo website regarding this issue.

Dagmara Tyler will try to organise talks on ‘Critically evaluating safety integrity levels’ and ‘dual phosphor probes’ for the next meeting.

The next meeting will be held on 17th May 2006 (this date was requested after the meeting - originally the date was to be 10th May).


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Last Updated: 29 Mar 2012
Created: 24 May 2010